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Mother had a blood clot last year and after it was dissolved the doctor kept giving her coumadin. She has very small veins and the nurse at the hospital told me that mother had tiny veins which collapse and she needed a fine needle when she had a blood test done. She gets these blood tests a lot and the tops of her hands are always black and blue. The tests are painful done in the hand and more so becuse of mother's tiny and collapsible veins. The nursing home should have butterfly needles there which cause less pain, but the tests take longer with the butterfly needle, so they just let the elderly resdient's suffer.
I would consider this abuse. You need to complain to her physician, the DNS at the nursing home, the social services staff at the hospital and finally, the state agency t that oversees nursing homes. Start with the DNS (director of nursing services) at the nursing home and find out exactly why this was done. If it was an emergency then I might understand but if it's a regular blood draw then it's inexcusable.
I do agree with complaining to the physician. I would also ask the physician if the nursing home could do the finger poke. I'm on coumadin and that's how I get tested every week and I've got small veins too.
Thank you so much. I just phoned the nursing home and they have a new director of nursing and they did gave me her first name. I also am upset because of the way they made me feel telling me that that sometimes things are painful but mother had to have these blood tests done. Pain management should have been their number one priority; instead I was put down and made me feel as though I were a child. I am 66.
I would definatly talk to the director it is probably an outside company I did many blood draws and never had someone getting upset-one thing I did most of the time was to warm soak the hand or arm which feels good and also using a butterfly on the side of the hand near the thumb hurts less since she has to have it done so often that is pt. abuse -another tech should have done or another nurse-I would make a stink about it for sure.
same way with my dad . i finaly put a stop to it . drawing blood from top of his hand s are terrible ! it made his hand all swelled up and black blue awful lookin hand . i told them nope cant take blood there sorry , find blood somewhere eles but his hands are off limit ! so they take his blood from the side of the wrist and its much better ! it took a long time for dad s hands to heal up , whine say my hand hurts , poor guy , just flat out tell them that is enough and no more ! put ur foot down ...
Sure appreciate both of your your comments and advice. I haven't been able to get this off my mind all weekend. I talked to my brother tonight and he said we would go tomorrow and talk to the admistrator of the nursing home. My brother wasn't there when this happened, but I have been there before when they have given her a blood test and she cried then and wanted them to stop, so I know they are painful. They only have one size needle. I wish they had the butterfly as I have heard it is less painful.
Wiggy: I have a dear friend that must have her clotting factor tested (INR) and they use a meter simlar to a 'diabetic meter' which is MUCH MUCH less painful than drawing blood.
Please take a look at this page for examples of the meters that can be used to make this a much less painful experience for ANYONE that needs testing done.
Surely a nursing home would be aware of this procedure, but if they are not... talk to her doctor, talk to the nursing director, someone about procuring one for the nursing home!!
It is very unsettling to me that the nursing staff (or doctors for that matter) cannot offer easier methods to patients when CLEARLY they exist!!)
I sure hope they apoligazed to you-if you do not feel they are listening to you go to the Board of health even though may not help it will be noted and looked into on their next inspection-that is what happened with me and my complaint.
Her MD has to give doctor's orders for her to have the finger poke for a PT/INR blood test. Hospitals usually don't have a PT/INR machine that does this because they would rather charge insurance companies a fortune for a venipuncture blood draw. Scream at her MD to scream at the hospital to order this equipment! There is no need for her to suffer like that. If the hospital won't purchase the equipment then threaten to sue them for assault and battery during a venipuncture. These PT/INR machines take just a drop of blood from the finger and only a minute to get the results that can be called asap to a doctor to get a coumadin order change as needed. I know all this because I'm an RN. If a patient refuses a venipuncture they can hemorrhage to death so that's why some nurses think they are doing the patient a favor even though they resist the needle. But these well-meaning nurses have no idea that a little painless machine exists!! They also don't know that a patient can refuse to take coumadin and venipunctures at the risk of their own demise....and that's OK. It's their free will even though their judgment is way off. The family usually makes the final decision for them and hopefully they have "legal guardianship", not worthless power-of-attorney. Hope this helps!
MiaMadre, A good friend of mine takes coumadin and she has the same Kind of clotting measure. She said it was a finger stick and she calls her number in. If there is a problem, her doctor calls her back. I don't know if they are exensive, maybe that is why the nursing home doesn't use them. I feel so bad for my mother, I love her and it hurt me so much seeing her being hurt so and listening to her cries and begging them to stop. She is defenseless and her own daughter, (me) couldn't make them stop from hurting her. This whole thing has made me ill that I told my brother I was never going back to the nursing home. I can't cope with that ever happening again. My brother said, you should be there when they give her an enama, it takes five of them to hold her down. Mother's never been constipated and no one ever asks me when she has a bowel movement in the evening when I am there and she has many of them before I put her down for the night. Mother 's aways been the type of person that in the morning she has a cup of coffee and about ten minutes later, she has to run to the bathroom and everything she has eaten the day before comes right out. Mother doesn't drink coffee anymore, but her stool is always soft. This latest news from my brother is almost too much for me. Mother has been in the nursing home for a year now and my brother has never missed a day being there for several hours and he feeds her lunch and then puts her on the toilet and down for a nap. Then, I come in the late afternoon and feed her supper and put her nightgown on and put her on the toilet and then to bed. So many times I can't find an aide to help me lift mother and she cannot help push herself up much anymore and it is getting harder and harder for me to do. I have arthritis in my back and knees, but my back is what hurts me when I'm trying to move her around. My brother said he can hardly lift her anymore himself when he is there and they are always short handed at the nursing home. thanks so much for your help. May God Bless You.
OK.. this nursing home needs to be reported. Please read through what RN posted and talk to someone in charge about your mother's care. If you or your brother are NOT the healthcare proxy for your mother, make sure one of you are! If you have issues with the nursing home, get an OMSBUDSMAN involved to help you! Something is not right.
Thanks so much, Mia :-) I'm afraid they might tell us to take mother out of the home if I cause a problem, then we will really be in trouble. So, I don't want to do that. I am going to the doctor's tomorrow because I have been so upset since this happened with the blood test mother had last Friday, I can hardly function and spend a lot of my time on here trying to find some help. My husband doesn't know what to do with me and it is hurting our relationship. He is 71 and our grandson 23 lives with us... They need me and emotionally I'm not there right now. I have an appointment with my doctor for my four month check up tomorrow and I am going to tell him what is going on with me. I don't really know who to contact at the nursing home who would really try to help me. The lady there who does all of the business and paper work is very nice. I might phone her tomorrow and talk with her. She is the one who made out the papers for my brother to be the POA after mother was admitted, etc. and has been very helpful and nice to both of us. Hope things are going well with you and your loved one. It is wonderful if you can look after them at home without having to put them in a home, but it can destroy you as it almost did my brother emotionally and is hard mentally and physically also. He was always afraid to leave her and had me come over when he had to go somewhere. It's 9:23 PM here . I live in Southern Illinois. God Keep You, Dear
wiggiann , that nursing home sounds like living in a nightmare . isnt there another nursing home around ? my town has like 5 of them . dont be afraid to report it cuz once they find out theyve been reported believe me they will straiughten up and be a nice person to ur mother . cuz its costing them thier job , when they see you they will be nice. believe me i know , been there and done that while my dad was in rehab , they dont want to mess with me . thats my dad and treat him with respect or they;ll be hearing it loud and clear . sounds like to me theyre trying to use ur mother as a rat lab . ordered all the test that is not needed , its a nightmare from what im reading . put her in another home plz .
Do not be afraid to report what happened stsrt with the head nurse or manager if that is what they call them now they need to know what happened so they can make changes-just do it in a calm way and you might want to write down what you want to say and maybe you and your brother can do it together-this has to be brought to their attention
I agree with starting with her doctor. And as far as the nursing home is concerned, I also wouldn't be too concerned about upsetting the apple cart. It's all about money, and they want yours. I have to have blood taken out of my hand since my veins roll in my arm. It's so much easier to do, and at Kaiser they are really proficient at it. I do know what you're talking about when you say the 'butterfly' thing. I don't like it though.
Thanks everyone for your help. It is so appreciated. Mother has been taken off the coumadin and put on a different medication which requires no blood draws. Hooray! It's a shame she had to endure so many painful tests for almost a year though. I was mistaken about the nursing home using a buttefly needle the next time she does have a blood t est. My daugther had mentioned that to me, but now she can't remember where she heard it. I phoned the department of public heath and the lady was waiting to hear from me before she began action on my complaint. However, when I found out mother's medication had been changed and this one didn't require blood tests, I phoned her and cancelled my complaint. I also found out who the ombudsman is for our area and his name and phone number. I imagine they are like an advocate for people in nursing homes. thanks again to everyone,
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The tests are painful done in the hand and more so becuse of mother's tiny and collapsible veins. The nursing home should have butterfly needles there which cause less pain, but the tests take longer with the butterfly needle, so they just let the elderly resdient's suffer.
so they take his blood from the side of the wrist and its much better !
it took a long time for dad s hands to heal up , whine say my hand hurts , poor guy , just flat out tell them that is enough and no more ! put ur foot down ...
Please take a look at this page for examples of the meters that can be used to make this a much less painful experience for ANYONE that needs testing done.
Surely a nursing home would be aware of this procedure, but if they are not... talk to her doctor, talk to the nursing director, someone about procuring one for the nursing home!!
It is very unsettling to me that the nursing staff (or doctors for that matter) cannot offer easier methods to patients when CLEARLY they exist!!)
Hope this helps!
Kind of clotting measure. She said it was a finger stick and she calls her number in. If there is a problem, her doctor calls her back. I don't know if they are exensive, maybe that is why the nursing home doesn't use them.
I feel so bad for my mother, I love her and it hurt me so much seeing her being hurt so and listening to her cries and begging them to stop. She is defenseless and her own daughter, (me) couldn't make them stop from hurting her. This whole thing has made me ill that I told my brother I was never going back to the nursing home. I can't cope with that ever happening again. My brother said, you should be there when they give her an enama, it takes five of them to hold her down. Mother's never been constipated and no one ever asks me when she has a bowel movement in the evening when I am there and she has many of them
before I put her down for the night. Mother 's aways been the type of person that in the morning she has a cup of coffee and about ten minutes later, she has to run to the bathroom and everything she has eaten the day before comes right out. Mother doesn't drink coffee anymore, but her stool is always soft. This latest news from my brother is almost too much for me. Mother has been in the nursing home for a year now and my brother has never missed a day being there for several hours and he feeds her lunch and then puts her on the toilet and down
for a nap. Then, I come in the late afternoon and feed her supper and
put her nightgown on and put her on the toilet and then to bed. So many times I can't find an aide to help me lift mother and she cannot help push herself up much anymore and it is getting harder and harder for me to do.
I have arthritis in my back and knees, but my back is what hurts me when I'm trying to move her around. My brother said he can hardly lift her anymore himself when he is there and they are always short handed
at the nursing home. thanks so much for your help. May God Bless You.
They need me and emotionally I'm not there right now. I have an appointment with my doctor for my four month check up tomorrow and I am going to tell him what is going on with me. I don't really know who to contact at the nursing home who would really try to help me. The lady there who does all of the business and paper work is very nice. I might phone her tomorrow and talk with her. She is the one who made out the papers for my brother to be the POA after mother was admitted, etc.
and has been very helpful and nice to both of us. Hope things are going well with you and your loved one. It is wonderful if you can look after them at home without having to put them in a home, but it can destroy you as it almost did my brother emotionally and is hard mentally and physically also. He was always afraid to leave her and had me come over when he had to go somewhere. It's 9:23 PM here . I live in Southern Illinois.
God Keep You, Dear
sounds like to me theyre trying to use ur mother as a rat lab . ordered all the test that is not needed , its a nightmare from what im reading .
put her in another home plz .
My daugther had mentioned that to me, but now she can't remember where she heard it. I phoned the department of public heath and the lady was waiting to hear from me before she began action on my complaint.
However, when I found out mother's medication had been changed and this one didn't require blood tests, I phoned her and cancelled my complaint. I also found out who the ombudsman is for our area and his name and phone number. I imagine they are like an advocate for people in nursing homes. thanks again to everyone,
Wiggyann